NSALG Southern Regional Panel

[Joe K]

I must admit, I feel a bit like my so-called councillors and MP feel when I ask them for help, in that I can't see how I would be much help, if this clerk is refusing to provide you with answers. She'll definitely know I'm linked to you, because no-one else would turn up out of the blue, asking such questions. Still, I'll give it a go. because I'd want the aforementioned pollies to bother. Probably be tomorrow now, though. Easier at least, not being overly concerned with subtlety... 

Link to the website, for convenience: Brimscombe and Thrupp website

[Deleted]

Ah, but if you are refused as well, you can complain to the Office of the Information Commissioner, and that will double the numbers of complainants...

You could ask where the minutes are for the (practically secret) special meeting from 17th October.

[Joe K]

Fair enough, then. I'll get on to that.

Are the the allotments in question? Seems like a lot of questions need answering. Maybe the noticeboard should have a flyer put up, if there isn't one already?

Brimscombe & Thrupp allotments?

[Joe K]

Yes, it seems that the community orchard is somewhere in the green space between Thrupp Lane and London Rd, bracketed by Dallaway and Miller Close:

Orchard area?

Bear in mind that Google maps could be as out of date as with Alney Island, so could show things as they were before work began around 2007:

Thrupp Community Orchard inaugural meeting 

And there's a Wordpress page which should be due an update soon:

Thrupp Community Orchard Wordpress page

[Deleted]

The Thrupp Community Orchard (the real one) is not connected to either the allotment site or the council. Good news.

I still need to find out whether the Thrupp Lane allotment site is statutory allotments. I certainly wouldn't want the orchard to be grubbed up if it turns out that the change of use was unlawful, but I'd press for the grazing plots to be returned to allotments in the near future, especially as two years ago there was stated to be a waiting list for allotments in the parish.

[Joe K]

Nov 23, 2014 17:52:52 GMT @kaypowell said:

Even better, though, I see from the recently added minutes of 7th October, that at least the council has turned down a request for a grant to upgrade the 'community orchard', which is actually a privately rented orchard that seems to have been planted unlawfully on allotment land; although of course I can't be sure that the land is statutory allotment land as they won't answer my FOI request. The 'community orchard' was one of the central disputes that led me to become involved in this mess at Thrupp allotments; it used to be open to everyone till some selfish people were allowed to rent it for themselves and their friends and family, to the annoyance of many other allotment holders.

So, to clarify, are there people causing disputes on the statutory allotments, as a separate issue from Thrupp Community Orchard, which certainly seems to be a laudable endeavour?

It's the former issue that a new FoI request would be best to focus on, so the more background information available on that, the better.

That being said, I can still send an email to Tina Balgobin asking why there is no mention of allotments ororchards in their 'Parish Plan', and suggest that creation of an allotment holders' group might be worth exploring at the next meeting. It's a bit surprising, to say the least, that there isn't one already...

[Joe K]

Well, got my response, and they didn't say FoI requests couldn't be sent to parish councils, so I still think it was worth getting the ducks in line...


Dear Mr Kilker,

Thank you for your email. FOI requests for Brimscombe & Thrupp Parish Council do not go through the county council, you would need to submit a request to the Parish Council directly. They have a web form on their website which you can use to contact them, which is available via this link: www.brimscombeandthrupp-pc.gov.uk....

I hope this helps.

Yours sincerely,

Information Management Service

Gloucestershire County Council
Shire Hall
Westgate Street
Gloucester
GL1 2TG

[Deleted]

To clarify:
There is an orchard in Thrupp that is called Thrupp Community Orchard and was started on farmland in 2007 by a group of local people who have nothing to do with the council. I wish them well.
There is another orchard that has been planted on land that is owned by the council and used to be allotments. One of the people who has been renting this orchard since early last year has had the nerve to go cap-in-hand to the council to ask for a grant on the grounds that it is a 'community orchard' - luckily this request has been denied. The council has actually called it a community orchard in their official documentation, but it is privately rented and only accessible to the friends and families of those who have rented it. Other local people have been denied access, even to pick up fruit that was rotting away.
There is also an issue of more allotment land being given over to grazing plots. The orchard and grazing plots may be on statutory allotment land, but the council won't tell me. If statutory allotments are not fully let, it is lawful to let them temporarily as grazing land, but two years ago there was definitely a waiting list for allotments in the parish (the previous allotment manager helpfully divulged this in a newsletter).
It is not lawful to turn statutory allotments into an orchard, but I would hate to see the trees being grubbed up because I also love orchards. I'd prefer it if the existing orchard could become another genuine community orchard for the use of all of the allotment holders. If you're going to emphasise anything, it would be good to ask if the grazing plots at the allotments are on statutory allotment land.
I certainly think that you could ask about the parish plan and why it doesn't mention allotments, as it is the statutory responsibility of parish councils to provide allotments.

[Joe K]

You read my mind, Kay. I definitely think a question on the statutory nature of the allotments would be perfectly reasonable, and only people like Pat Scannell or Tony Ward would create a spurious pretext in their minds for ignoring such a query. I certainly hope the clerk isn'tsuch a person, or worse yet, decides to block my emails, like Richard Graham did for his secretary, Sarah Cuthbert (without, he since admits, informing herof this fact, let alone myself), because of some still unrevealed upset I'm supposeedcto have caused her.

There shouldn't be much difficulty getting these answers, so fingers crossed.

Actually speaking of TETRA, now that its boundary covers not just Moreland, or part of it, but Tredworth up to Ryecroft St too, but definitely still the bit behind Parry Hall your house is in, do you think you could ask them for copies of this years meeting minutes. The constitution states that ALL meeting minutes can be requested (and doesn't even specify residents/tenants), so that would include the 'committee meeting' they held immediately after you left last years's AGM, telling me I couldn't remain in attendance, so would have to leave. The one David Harber was allowed to remain at, as UKIP candidate for council elections,and heard plans for the imminent introduction of a noticeboard at the Co-op being discussed. I don't know if such a spur of the moment meeting is 'best practise', but if there were minutes for it, they should be requestable too.

'Proper minutes shall be kept of all minutes of the Association. All minutes shall be made available to anyone who asks for them. Minutes must also be kept on file.'

TETRA constitution, via FoI

I understand if you don't want to do this, given how unpleasant these two individuals have turned out to be. I can give you Karen Page's email, though, if you'd like to make the request through a less obnoxious committee member?

[Deleted]

I've just checked the Brimscombe and Thrupp Parish Council website, and unsurprisingly they have not put up the agenda for the meeting that will be taking place in Tuesday, nor the minutes from the 17th October.

[Deleted]

I see that I have recently been elevated to the status of 'God'. Obviously, this is not a god who is omniscient or omnipotent.

[Joe K]

I'm a little jealous, frankly, but I keep telling myself, 'that would be an ecumenical matter...'

[Deleted]

Brimscombe and Thrupp Parish Council has again refused my FOI request, so the matter is now with the Office of the Information Commissioner. I have made an additional complaint against their clerk relating to the Data Protection Act.

[Joe K]

Her willingness to check up on requesters' backgrounds is quite shocking...

[Deleted]

Councils are absolute bastards. Take Watford Borough Council, for instance: they've just lost a High Court battle over their attempt to build on Farm Terrace Allotments, but they have not changed their stance one iota. They are carrying on regardless, and they now intend resubmitting their application to the Secretary of State for deregulating the statutory allotments in favour of the 'Watford Health Campus' scheme. Presumably they have hired expensive lawyers who think that they have detected a legal loophole (like the one that allowed the development of the motorway service area at Brookthorpe).