City Farm riding arena (in the park)

[Deleted]

I don't know if you've noticed, but the application form refers to the existence of a "surface spec" for the all weather surface. This must be a document that has not yet been made available online. The council is useless. How can we comment on the surface when there is no information available?

[Joe K]

At least the documents seem to be loading well tonight. There's a new one about lighting too. Kind of think they're writing it on the fly.

[Joe K]

Your plea to turn the application down is on the site now, Kay.

The Citizen has also published an article:

Riding centre plans at city farm split opinion

I've registered to comment. I just hope they don't disable my account without discussion, it would really be nice to be able to give opinions in plain sight...

[Joe K]

DAS: St James City Farm (eaiser to put it here than keep accessing the council site)

Community Riding Arena

Background

The Community Riding Arena proposed at St James City Farm, is in response to local
charity: Gymnation’s continued commitment to rejuvenating the much loved Community
Farm within inner city Gloucester. Together, with the appreciated support of our generous
funders, since April 2011 we have made great strides in improving the tired and
dilapidated farm site in the heart of Tredworth. Within Gymnation, our core values revolve
around community development, targeting mainly disadvantaged young people as well as
developing an understanding between the numerous community groups around the Barton
and Tredworth area. With this in mind, during the 2 years that the Farm has been under
Gymnation’s stewardship we have developed the site to include:

- a new cafe facility, to showcase the best culinary delights that Barton and Tredworth has
to offer as well as educating people on healthy/sustainable food preparation.
- Newly built office and animal shelters entirely built using unskilled volunteers of all ages
using recycled and reclaimed materials.
- Adult education projects; re-developing the existing allotment space coupled with arts
and crafts projects improving the overall site appearance.

All these improvements have been made possible due to the exceptional dedication and
hard work of our staff and volunteers, united by the unwavering support of the local
community. Collectively, we feel that the addition of the riding arena will further cement
our long-term ambition to make City Farm shining model of sustainability within the City.

Currently, we manage a very successful inner city riding project, which aims to give local
young people a chance to learn equestrian related skills. This would be seen as
impossible to most, within this deeply underprivileged part of an otherwise affluent county.

The overwhelming success of this project, supported by the Emile Faurie Foundation has
enabled us to secure and gratefully receive, funding from The Wooden Spoon Charity for
the erection of all weather riding facility at City Farm. We aim to create a state of the art
facility endorsed by the British Horse Society which we hope will be unanimously
welcomed by the community we strive to serve. This new facility will also be available for
non-equestrian use opening up the possibilities for wider public participation in activities
held on the proposed site.

Design

Access1

The city farm is located in between the local precincts of Tredworth and Barton. Their are
two important bus routes which provide quick and efficient connections to the city centre,
as well as the rest of Gloucester and its surroundings. We actively encourage visitors to
use public transport due to the limited parking facilities currently available to us.

Nevertheless, we would like to improve our parking facilities around the site by fulfilling our
desire to use the car park at the neighbouring Golden Heart Pub currently in disuse. We
currently have a agreement in place with the city council to use this space for public
parking however, due to the current spate of anti social behaviour in the surrounding and
adjacent; St James Park, we are reluctant to use this facility until a better management
strategy can be agreed upon in conjunction with our City Council partners. We feel that
this solution would benefit our immediate neighbours in particular who’s loyal and support
has been steadfast during the 15 years of the City Farm

The riding arena itself will have two access points, the main being to the west of the area
at next to the café extension as well as an emergency access located along the east
fence. There are potentially three access points for emergency vehicles/personnel to the
arena, these are:

1. The Albany Street entrance to St James Park
2. The Upton Street passage to St James Park Parallel to St James Church
3. The Upton Street no through road next to City Farm allotments

Known by the farm staff as ‘the hammer head,’ the no through road next to the allotments
is still and will remain, our designated Fire Assembly Spot.

Layout2

The location of the site in relation to the farm lies southeast to the main farm/café
buildings. In relation to the locality, the proposed riding arena will be situated north of St
James Park between the existing east fence line to farm site and the west facing
boundary wall belonging to the neighbouring St James Church. The main entrance to the
riding arena will be located on the newly proposed west facing stock fence. The arena
itself in turn will be enclosed with a newly erected 3-3.5m anti-vandal sports fencing.

Scale, Impact and Appearance

The prosed arena is currently flanked by the St James Church to the east, semi detached
housing to the north, the farm site itself to the west and St James’ Park to the south. We
aim to keep any site fencing as distinguishable as possible to the existing fence line in
height and scale principally, to give the impression of a seamless transition as if the
proposed was part of the existing farm envelope. The overall site footprint of the arena is
812.04m2 (40.2m in length, 20.2m in width). The current external paddock spaces that
currently reside in the proposed site area occupy around 50% of total space required for
the newly proposed riding arena. This obviously means that public recreational space will
be minimally reduced however, the benefits to the overall harmony and security of both the
farm site and St James Park, will be improved as a direct consequence through improved
security and landscaping as result of the arena construction.

One of our biggest issues we have currently on site is security. This is commonly shared
which our neighbours and we feel duty bound, whatever solution we find must serve the
immediate community we serve as well our own interests. We currently share the
responsibility of managing the immediate boundary areas with the city council so any
changes would have to be agreed in principle mutually between ourselves.

Currently, the
arena space remains isolated from the farm site, however we feel coupled with a newly
built café addition along with the proposed arena, this will give a more of a consistent
presence to this often secluded part of St James is Park which is often highlighted by
local law enforcement as antisocial hotspot. The additional of arena flood lighting allows
the site to be used well past farm hours if needed and should again provide a small but
effective presence on site when needed.

Any probable contentious issues with our immediate neighbours regarding boundary
encroachment we feel with confidence can amicably settled with minimal fuss.

Unequivocally, this project has the needs of the immediate community in its best interests.
Aesthetically, the ménage arena is very basic in its form. The arena in reality is four
fences and an all weather-riding surface. Our goal with the fencing is to keep a healthy
balance between strong adequate security and protection for ménage users as well as
retaining good visibility through the fencing. We think the only real solution to this is green
powder coat sports fencing, which is in keeping with the existing. We find visibility is not
impaired through the steel mesh. Other steel and timber based solutions, which were more
aesthetically pleasing we found often broke up the view through the fencing as well as
being rather domineering on the site. Internal fencing will consist of tantalized and stained
stock fencing in keeping with the existing.

Landscaping

It is imperative when working within green space to maintain and improve its character.
The riding arena is located with a local park and must therefore preserve its
attractiveness. Removal of some existing trees and benches as well as re-routing a public
footpath will have to be implemented, however, we aim to replace all of these amenities
to a standard, which is better then currently available.

Trees and Vegetation: Only two trees need to be replaced or relocated from the site
none have any TPO status. We aim to replace these by adding them to a newly
landscaped rerouted footpath, hopefully providing a more pleasant experience to passers
by. Small alterations to be made on a large oak tree situated to the north west of the site
on our current and proposed site boundary. It is in our best interest that this tree is not
removed due to it being the only of its kind on site.
Furniture: Existing bins and foul bins to be relocated. We are constantly battling with
litter and dog fouling in the area so additional bins will be erected. The existing picnic
table will be relocated within the designated landscaping area, adjacent to the rerouted
path.
Services: As far as we know on various survey drawings we have no immediate service
lines running underneath the area to be excavated, other the electricity line for a lamp
post ear marked for relocation. Western Power Distribution has agreed in principle to take
part in this service as an act of good will. The Existing BT line to the neighbouring, Glevum
Works does run parallel to the footpath in question therefore BT will be informed before
works commence.

The landscaping motioned so far are mandatory actions which will have to be
implemented. However, we would like to make it very clear that we fully intend to further
improve the landscaping around the newly proposed site fencing as part of the on going
regeneration of the farm site in the near future.

Edited: because it's a bugger to re-punctuate the copy & paste

[Deleted]

There are two more positive comments on the website. There is still no sign of the specifications for the all weather surface, though, so I have just complained to Gavin Jones. It turns out that he is away till 2nd October.

[Joe K]

One of the comments is by a guy better known as Ahmed Bham, I believe. If I'm right, he's the one who ran as a councillor for the Lib Dems in Barton & Tredworth, putting out a leaflet in Arabic.

The similarity of the latest comments fontwise may be just a crazy random happenstance, or not...

[Joe K]

As tomorrow is the last chance to comment on the proposal, I'll be going to the council offices again to 'inspect' the plan which is such a fail, and get an answer about why they accepted it. Their answer will determine what my final comment, if any, will be.

[Joe K]

Past time I added the last comments, starting with yours, Kay, and ending with the one I just submitted:

Dear Sir,

I strongly object, not only to the planning application, but also to the inability of the general public to properly view the plans online. Joe Kilker has told me that he had great difficulty in persuading the council to allow him to see printed versions of some of the documents, and I haven't had time to come in to view them myself. There is definitely at least one document missing from the list of documents available online: part 9 of the application form refers more than once to a “surface spec” for the all weather riding surface, which does not appear anywhere in the list of documents on the council's website. Two of the documents are also very difficult to read online due to their poor quality; these are the ones named as 'Riding Arena Adjustments plan' and 'Riding Arena site location plan'; the former has minuscule writing in grey, which can only just be read when blown right up; the latter is similarly difficult to read if viewed as a whole, so can only be inspected when blown up.

Part 5 of the application form asks: Has assistance or prior advice been sought from the local authority about this application? Imran Atcha has answered “no”. I simply don't believe this. The whole affair has clearly been plotted between the city council and Gymnasian UK Ltd over a number of years.

By searching on the Charity Commission's website, I have discovered that Gymnasian UK Ltd is a registered charity that uses the working names of Gymnation and Friendship Cafe, but that these two latter titles are not registered charities. The applicant is actually Gymnasian UK Ltd, not Imran Atcha, who seems to be an employee of the applicant. When he answers “no” to the questions in part 8 of the application form, it is possible that he is being disingenuous; he himself may not be related to anyone at the city council, but I suspect that at least one of the trustees of Gymnasian UK Ltd is. It is for the council to investigate this.

Even more worryingly, a former city council officer with quite a lot of clout has obviously been involved with the riding centre enterprise since at least 2010. The officer that I refer to is Derek Wakefield-Brown. He was an employee of the city council for about twenty years, running their countryside unit, which included the city farm. He actually set up the city farm in about the late nineties. He probably retired on 31st March 2011, although I can't be absolutely sure of the date. I do remember that he was still employed by the council in 2010, and he definitely ran the city farm on behalf of Gymnasian from 1st April 2011 to 31st March 2013. The leasing of the city farm to Gymnasian was planned during 2010, although the lease wasn't signed till 1st August 2011. Unbeknown to most local people the official lease of the city farm to Gymnasian included far more than the farm itself and ancillary bits of land (i.e. the community garden and the allotments); it included a huge chunk of public open space in St. James' Park. This is clear from the map dated 02/12/2010. I don't remember any consultation taking place over the transfer of public open space to a private
organisation. No-one at the council in 2010 seems to have questioned why Gymnasian needed so much extra land; I presume that this is because they knew perfectly well that the charity planned to build a riding centre next to the city farm, so would need the extra space.

One odd thing about the map that is included with the planning application is that the size of the extra land (on which the riding arena is to be constructed) is actually smaller than the area shown on the equivalent map that was sent to me recently by Paul James when I questioned how much land Gymnasian controlled. Another difference is that, on the 02/12/2010 map, submitted with the planning application, the city farm area is shown as encompassing a chunk of land on the corner of Upton Street and Albany Street, which I feel is public highway. I'm going to put in a Freedom of Information Act request to the county council about this.

The paddock that currently occupies part of the proposed site was constructed some years ago as a temporary measure because there was insufficient grazing land at the city farm; they were clearly the thin end of the wedge. There was never any planning permission to fence off part of the public open space in St. James' Park. It was claimed that it would be nice for there to be a picnic table next to the paddock, so that families could sit and watch the grazing animals. When the paddock was no longer needed, the fencing should have been removed and the land returned to public open space, but that clearly was never going to happen. I don't quite know where the picnic table is going to be moved to now.

Not content with purloining part of the St. James' Park, Gymnasian now wants to take over the council car park behind the pub in The Laurels. That pub has now reopened as The Treddy, so parking will needed by the staff and customers there. The car park is chiefly supposed to be a shoppers' car park anyway, I think. If and when the council pulls its finger out and actually enforces the parking restrictions on the High Street, a lot more motorists will want to use the car park. Some local residents have always used the car park. It is enormously arrogant of Gymnasian to think that it can have that car park; of course, they've been given what they want so far, so it's not that surprising that they're looking for more land to conquer. The application form states that there are currently six parking spaces on site, and that these will be lost. This makes absolutely no sense. The city farm only has one parking space, and that has been constructed recently near their entrance, on land that they don’t even own. Part of the public highway on Albany Street is also fenced off and used as part of a paddock; this has never been challenged before. I believe that a section of public highway land has also been fenced off and added to the allotments area on the corner of Albany Street and Upton Street; this was done a few years ago, but it isn’t included in the area that the map from Paul James shows as being part of the city farm.

There is no Tree Survey, despite the fact that two trees will be felled and another two are very close to the development site. The sycamore to the north of the site is large but still growing. The Design & Access Statement mis-identifies it as an oak, and states that it is to the north-west of the site (which it isn’t). The Riding Arena site location plan says in tiny writing “existing tree to be pruned back”, but no indication of how much it will be reduced. No mention is made anywhere of a large cherry tree just outside the south-west corner of the development site, but whose roots may be affected by the development. This application definitely needs a Tree Survey.

I question whether a soakaway is lawful. There will be an awful lot of horse urine going down it. They do a couple of gallons at a time, you know. Details of the soakaway are, again, contained in the “surface spec” document that is not on the website.

There is no mention anywhere of how many horses there will be, or where they will be stabled. If they are to be kept at the existing city farm site, then there won’t be room for much else. Each horse requires a stable about the size of a small double bedroom. In addition, there would have to be a tack room and a food store. Horses get through a huge amount of hay. I have a nasty suspicion that this is only the first planning application relating to a riding centre, and that, if it is successful, there will be another application for new stables to be built on the site. The only places that the stables could possibly be built are on the current allotments or the nearby paddock. Then there would be no paddock in which the horses could graze. If the horses are to be stabled elsewhere, then I object on animal welfare grounds, as horses hate being moved around in vehicles.

I strongly disagree with the statements made by Saj Patel. He is Cabinet Member for Environment, but seems to care little about the environment of St. James’ Park. “The open space for the proposed arena is not used much by the public/community.” Well, at least half of it is fenced off, so can’t be used at present; the other half has a picnic bench on it that is definitely well used. “There is sufficient open spaces available for public enjoyment adjoining the proposed site.” Absolute bullshit! St. James’ Park is small, and has to serve most of the Barton & Tredworth ward. Even the Draft Open Space Strategy that the city council published in December last year acknowledged that open space, outdoor sports provision and play areas in the Barton & Tredworth ward all fell seriously short of an acceptable standard (page 36 of the document). Even more worrying is the fact that, in calculating ‘open space’, the council has clearly included all of the area occupied by the city farm (page 37), even though part is built on and all of it has been leased to Gymnasian! This means that the area of St. James’ Park that is actually open to the public is far less than the 1.26 hectares that is claimed in the document. It would be good to have a MUGA at the park, but I don’t think that there is even room for one, unless it could perhaps be built next to the graveyard wall. If Saj Patel cares so much about the kids in the ward, perhaps he could address the serious lack of accessible open space and formal play areas in the ward, rather than supporting a planning application that would remove yet another part of the open space in St. James’ Park.

If only the council hadn’t given Gymnasian the nod three years ago, then alternative sites for a riding centre could have been considered. At that time, there was still consultation going on regarding the use of land at the Railway Triangle. If there had been the will, the council could probably have persuaded Morrison’s to purchase a piece of land over the Myers Road side off the Railway Triangle and donate it to the council for leasing to Gymnasian. It could have been larger than the proposed development site and could have had all facilities built on site. That boat has sailed. However, on a positive note, I do have another suggestion as to where a new riding centre could be built – the old Civil Service Sports Club site that Richard Graham has been banging on about. Redrow have apparently stated their willingness to include a new football stadium for the Tigers, but it is clear that it is not wanted by the club. How much better would it be if a new riding centre were to be constructed there? It would keep part of the site in use for sports, and less land would be required than for a football stadium. This looks like a win-win situation to me. Redrow would be happy. Richard Graham would be happy (I hope). Users of St. James’ Park would be happy that their public open space is being kept as just that. Gymnasian would get their riding centre, even if it’s not exactly where they want it; but we can’t all have everything that we want, when and where we want it.

I can sympathise with the kids who want to go riding and whose parents can’t afford it. I loved ponies when I was a child. I grew up in the countryside between Cheltenham and Gloucester. When I reached eleven years of age I was allowed to have one riding lesson per week. The riding centre was not on my doorstep, nor would I have expected it to be. At first, I was driven there, but soon I had to cycle the three miles or so to the riding centre. There was no bus route anywhere near. There is public transport in Gloucester that can be used by the families who would be using a riding centre in Kingsholm. Also, I’m sure that Gymnasian has a minibus that they could use to transport kids from the Barton & Tredworth area. It’s certainly easier to transport children than horses.

The city council's current motto seems to be “Transforming Your City”. A transformation is not necessarily for the better. Of course it would be lovely to have a riding centre in the heart of urban Gloucester, but there simply isn’t enough space. Gymnasian is trying to squeeze a quart into a pint pot, and I ask the council to reject this application.

Yours faithfully,
Kay Powell.

-----------------------------------------

I would like to support this project and hope the plans are passed favourably.
This is an excellent idea to get city kids doing something different and
learning new skills that is out of reach for most inner city dwellers. Giving
children this opportunity would be very worthwhile so I hope this is able to
go ahead.

Mrs A Mayat

----------------------------------------

Dear sirs

I am writing to you in support of the riding school arena proposed at the city
farm. I think it is an excellent idea and would encourage a lot of the inner
city folk to take up horse riding which traditionally was and is only pursued
in the main by country dwellers. Please note and oblige.

Yours faithfully
Saeed Bham

------------------------------------

Firstly, in reply to the last two comments, I should like to point out that Tredworth isn't an 'inner city' area. It's just the closest site TO that area that the applicants must think they have a ghost of a chance of setting up a riding arena in, even if it means that users of St. James' Park lose out, as they are doing even now, due to fencing that can only be described as 'delapidated' shutting off part of the park for no good reason. Secondly, in spite of having well over a week for either the council or the applicants to respond to concerns raised, they have failed to respond in any way, and it doesn't seem in any way creditable that the proposal in its present form can be approved. Therefore thirdly and lastly, a restart of the consultation period is anticipated, once the plans are brought up to scratch.

(I typed it as one paragraph because that's how it would end up anyway. In hindsight, I see that email is the way to go, to keep paragraphs and bold type. Something to keep in mind for the future)

[Joe K]

I tried to make this comment today, to see if the consultation period was still extant. It hasn't appeared yet. Maybe they've ruled it off topic...

I'm making this comment in part to establish if the receptionist at Gloucester City Council was right, when I asked to see the documents yesterday, before the deadline expired, and she told me that it would (probably) be extended because of new documents that had to be added, after the person in charge of this application came back from holiday next week. I'm still clicking 'Object', so as not to send out a mixed message, and because going to the council offices to inspect documents and not being allowed to do so, whatever the excuses, is pretty objectionable.

[Deleted]

It seems that Gavin Jones is the only officer who knows anything about the application, so we have to wait till next week when he comes back from holiday in order to get any answers.

Are you saying that you weren't allowed to see the documents when you went to the council offices?

[Joe K]

Not a one, Kay. They just seem to have fallen into a lazy assumption that everyone can use the website, so why should they lift a finger to accommodate someone who's taken the trouble to physically visit the offices?

I was able to read all the latest comments a few hours back, butr now the last three aren't working for me either. The one by Imran Atcha was risible, though. So, if everyone knew what was going to happen, why did we keep asking where this riding arena was going to be put? When did Gymnasian drop that little nugget?

As the site seems to have packed up completely, I'll post the one comment I managed to get before the meltdown:

To Whom It May Concern

Dear Sir/Madam

Safer Gloucester

As Project Development Officer for the Gloucester City Council Community Safety Team, I have been aware
of the work of Gymnation, the Friendship Café and more latterly of St James City Farm for several years.

I know that Imran Atcha and the staff of all of the above are well experienced in running projects that will
assist the community and reduce anti social behaviour and support young people who are at risk of
offending. Imran has a level of experience with owning and caring for horses in order to enable young
people from the local community to also enjoy this challenge.

I am confident that subject to any appropriate planning permissions/approvals and licensing agreements, a
riding arena would be of great benefit to the community, providing affordable riding lessons and extending
the work of the city farm in working with disaffected young people.

Yours faithfully

Pat Dabbs

Project Development Officer

[Joe K]

Website is still acting up, but I managed to get the last three on Mozilla:

Dear Sirs

Having perused through some of the comments made on the planning
application, I thought that it may be helpful to clarify a few points that
have been raised.

Welfare/stabling.
The riding arena is not intended to require more than 3 or 4 ponies
–
there is no plan for a large herd of full size horses. We have gone
through the plans in detail with the British Horse Society who have
visited us twice and advised and approved of our ideas in principal. The
British Horse Society is primarily intereste
d in the welfare of horses and
ponies and the approval of riding schools to meet appropriate safety
standards. A typical medium to large
-
size riding school would require
more acreage and stabling space as they can have anything from 15
-
100 horses. However,
this proposal is for a very basic level riding and
care, education and volunteering project mainly to benefit children and
young people who wouldn’t normally get the chance. Stabling will be on
site through our existing stables. No new stables are require
d to be
constructed, merely adaptations to our existing buildings. We also have
arrangements for grazing land off
-
site when required.
The proposals have also been discussed with a number of other highly
experienced equine experts who have also visited the
site and
appreciate the need and approve of the idea. This includes Hartpury
College, the world’s largest equine college, instructors from other riding
schools and Cheltenham Racecourse. It may seem unusual but there
are a handful of other riding schools i
n the middle of the city including
one in Vauxhall and another in Brixton, the patronage of which is under
HRH Camilla Parker
-
Bowles.

Publicity:
The idea for the riding school has not come out of the blue. It was
proposed whilst we were in the early stag
es of negotiating the handover
of the farm from the city council in 2010. It was officially recorded that
that this was one of the plans and stated specifically in the lease that the
farm would use some of the land for a riding arena. These proposals
were
discussed by the elected officials at the committee meetings before
the handover took place and members of the public were able to
comment on these ideas. At the time, and to date, visitors are delighted
that the farm has remained open and undergone consid
erable
improvements, rather than close down which was the alternative and a
real possibility.

The idea has also been publicised in the local media and in our widely
accessible publicity on
-
line since 2010/2011. Earlier this year it was also
presented to th
e Olympic Legacy Group made up of key representatives
in the sports development sector for this city. The idea has also had the
approval of those involved in the Crime and Disorder reduction plans
(see attached letter) and our local police team.

The idea
was also discussed and supported by the Barton & Tredworth
Neighbourhood Partnership in the very early stages before the council
had made any contact with us about taking over the farm. Local
residents attend and are represented on this partnership. We had
the
idea then to buy a pony to keep at the farm and get an instructor to
teach children. The idea never took off at the farm itself but the project
still took place at Hartpury College with the backing of Gloucestershire
County Council Youth Capital Fund
and therefore the riding plans have
never been something that has just appeared but one that we have been
involved in for a number of years and this has all been public knowledge.
Please visit
www.thefriendshipcafe.com/tfc_riding_project
for a
short video and background.

I am happy to meet anyone on site to clarify any further areas if required.

Yours faithfully
Imran Atcha
Coordi nator
GymNation
-
Fri endshi p Cafe
-
St Jam es City F
arm

------------------------------------------------

Firstly, in reply to the last two comments, I should like to point out that Tredworth isn't an
'inner city' area. It's just the closest site TO that area that the applicants must think they have
a
ghost of a chance of setting up a riding arena in, even if it means that users of St. James'
Park lose out, as they are doing even now, due to fencing that can only be described as
'delapidated' shutting off part of the park for no good reason. Secondly, in spite of having
well over a week for either the council or the applicants to respond to concerns raised, they
have failed to respond in any way, and it doesn't seem in any way creditable that the proposal
in its present form can be approved. Therefore thirdly and lastly, a restart of the consultation
period is anticipated, once the plans are brought up to scratch.
Mr Joe Kilker

-------------------------------

I'm making this comment in part to establish if the receptionist at Gloucester City Council
was right, when I asked to see the documents yesterday, before the deadline expired, and she
told me that it would (probably) be extended because of new documents that had to be added,
after the person in charge of this application came back from holiday next week. I'm still
clicking 'Object', so as not to send out a mixed message, and because going to the council
offices to inspect documents and not being allowed to do so, whatever the excuses, is pretty
objectionable.
Mr Joe Kilker

----------------------------

Again, Imran Atcha seems to be talking nonsense, or trying to create a distraction. If there is minuted evidence of all this advanced knowledge residents are supposed to have had about part of the park being used for the arena, he should produce it. Ideally, it should be part of the plans. I doubt it exists, though. Rather, we get vague references to meetings no resident (from outside of the loop, at any rate) was invited to.

Let's see the evidence of the public discussion/consultation.

And bear in mind that the county council can decide to put cycle lanes on Barton St, put out two hundred letters for a survey, and regard two positive responses as a mandate for the work. I doubt the city council is much better at justifying its actions.

[Deleted]

Public knowledge, eh? Well, I attend lots of council meetings, and look at their documents frequently, and I had absolutely no idea that they were leasing any public open space to an external organisation. I wonder if they had to put up a public notice anywhere. If so, I didn't see it.

[Joe K]

I submitted another comment this morning, to test if Saturday's hadn't just scraped under the wire, and it hasn't appeared yet...

If, as seems to be the case, the consultation period continues, perhaps we could see the notice of application outside the farm updated?

[Next para]Then we could have the alleged (or implied) support from the British Horse Society and neighbourhood partnership backed up with comments, as with the Community Safety Team. The terms of the lease of city park (public) property would also be useful.

[Next para]I should point out that *nobody* said anything about a 'large herd' of horses, full size or otherwise. The fact is that even one horse is too many if it mandates the loss of park space without (fact) genuine consultation with residents.

[Deleted]

I also assume that you were attending BTNP meetings at the time that this consultation supposedly took place? You didn't know anything about the lease on part of St. James' Park, did you?